Well, have visited Leroy and Jamet have a strong impression that both cellars are pretty transparent. So those are good examples. But again, don’t we want to know what’s going on behind the scenes? Weren’t we all redeemed by Toto when he pulled back the curtain to reveal the little man behind the Wizard?
Appropos Champagne, I feel that there is a strong transmission of terroir through many cuvees, partucularly from grower-producers (I would cite Pierre Peters, Selosse, and Milan among quite a few others). And Salon—magic stuff, indeed.
Ah...indeed, Champagne is probably not the greatest example given the inherent winemaker role. Though that is another topic altogether, argued on the pages of Thiese Selections and The New France very well already. So, let's substitute Leroy Musigny or Jamet Cote-Rotie. Point the same.
And no...I will never turn away from Salon. For, if it is "over manipulated," then I might have to accept it and continue to melt every time I get the chance to taste Mesnil-sur-Oger's Juice From Beyond.
Joe, you’re right on that overripeness is the main culprit right now. It’s purely fasion—just in the last scant decade—but there’s some doubt in my mind as to whether it will pass like most fashions or stick around like, for example, the “new” taste for dry wines that took hold in the 19th century. But I strongly disagree with your contention that great wines are accidents of nature, and that all other wine begs manipulation. Given a suitable climate, the right match of variety and location, and a little luck with the weather, a savvy winemaker anywhere ought to be able to make an excellent wine without excessive manipulations and additives.
And Shayn, I think we’re basically on the same page, but I do think knowing is very important. When I became convinced Bonds was juiced, I felt betrayed, and ashamed of the way I celebrated when he broke Ruth’s record—fraudulently, I believe. In fact, I’ve turned away from baseball because of steroids and hormones. But turn away from Salon? With Champagne, manipulation is pretty much the point w/Champagne, no? There’s a whole school of thought there, especially in the negociant houses, that’s pretty anti-terroir.
Thoughts?
"I would make me cringe to think that the 82 Salon I beyond is manipulated to the point of construction to recall what I tasted as a creamsicle without the sugar and not just that way because of their vineyards. It might not taste as good"
Wow..let's try that one again. (That's what ya get for typing while teaching a Level One for the Court!)
It would make me cringe to think that the 82 Salon I beyond enjoy was manipulated to the point of construction to taste (to me) like a creamsicle without sugar...and not just that way because of their vineyards. It might not taste as good.
In an effort to teach a group of international students in wine marketing for the OIV a week ago, I was asked about how I can define any area (Washington state in this case) as having "the t-word" or "there thereness" if it irrigates. Not surprisingly, the questioner was from the Old World - historically a large frowner upon the practice. And my answer was thus: unless the grape grows on its own in the middle of nowhere without any contact with human beings, then falls into a hole in the ground from a height needed to burst the skin and ferments from native yeast wafting on the wind, IT HAS BEEN MANIPULATED. A given.
The question, then, is what is acceptable to us? How is color different from sugar? If you utilize cultured yeast made specifically to work on certain levels of sugars with specific end product in mind, why can't you spin some alcohol out? At what point do we harm the initial essence of what nature gave us at the expense of what we think our customers want? And did nature really give it to us if we trained canes in ways that would happen naturally oh, 1 in a million times? Then did the many other things in the vineyard already mentioned?
It seems to me that the call for exactly what happens and exactly what the effect is would be great - but not on any label. Who, among even us, would really read it? I like the idea to ask yourself...if there are practices that go overboard, make your stand personally and professionally and move on. The market will then define itself.
Goofy thought on defining the line ofwhat manipulation goes too far so as to completely undo calling a bottle a "wine of place": that would be a cool study by some vit and eno program somewhere by simply taking the same wine grown the same way and put through the various winery manipulations listed above. Taste them blind. If they sense a turn in flavor profile which takes them away from what seems to be a "theme" or "terroir" or "thereness" in the wine overall, then, fine - call that "not in keeping with placeness-ness." And boycott unless they put on the label "from a place, but you wouldn't recognize it or like it, so we changed it to something else."
Point: what if we do get the information? What do we do then? I am with Rod - I am sick to my stomach over Manny and Papi winning the 04 World Series for my long suffering Sox "manipulated." But would I trade the feeling of beating the Yanks in The House That Ruth Built in Game 7 knowing what I know now? More importantly, would I have felt the same if I had known back then? I would make me cringe to think that the 82 Salon I beyond is manipulated to the point of construction to recall what I tasted as a creamsicle without the sugar and not just that way because of their vineyards. It might not taste as good.